Station: ABC 774 Melbourne Date: 03/09/2008
Program: Mornings Time: 10:05 AM
Compere: Ali Moore Summary ID: M00031950252

ALI MOORE: Well, do you read the Fairfax newspapers and do you worry about budget cuts and what they might mean for editorial quality? Do you think you're already seeing an impact? Perhaps you've given up on newspapers and you've gone to the internet. The number you can call is 1300 222 774.

Last week and earlier this week, we talked about the decision by Fairfax to cut 550 staff and the sacking of The Age editor, Andrew Jaspan. The staff walk out and then, this week, their return to work and the new pay deal that is to be put to workers. Through all of it we never succeeded in talking to anyone from Fairfax, in terms of Fairfax management.

Today on the media segment, Fairfax spokesman Bruce Wolpe joins us to discuss the future of the company and to take your calls.

A little later, we'll talk to former Age employee and now editor of Crikey.com.au, Jonathan Green.
Bruce Wolpe, good morning.

BRUCE WOLPE: Ali, I'm sorry I'm not with you in person. But great to hear from you.

ALI MOORE: Well, you're in the studio in Sydney, which is pretty...

BRUCE WOLPE: Yes, indeed.

ALI MOORE: ... pretty much as close as we can get.

BRUCE WOLPE: That's okay.

ALI MOORE: At what point do budget cuts, job cuts affect editorial quality? Because it is after all editorial quality that sells newspapers.

BRUCE WOLPE: It's editorial quality that sells newspapers. And just a little perspective, you went through some numbers. Let me just go through for a moment. Five hundred fifty staff across both companies in Australia, New Zealand. Fairfax Media, it's the largest media company in Australia/New Zealand. In New Zealand, 150 people, in Australia, about 400; so 70 per cent of the cuts in Australia, 30 per cent in New Zealand.

In Australia, 70 per cent of the cuts are in corporate and overhead, bureaucracy and so forth, 30 per cent editorial. So a lot of people when they say - when it comes to media companies streamlining they say, well, is corporate taking the hit on this, are you slicing fat out of that before you get to editorial. And the answer is yes.

And on editorial, of the hundred it's - it's about 50 - numbers have to be - there's a consultation process with the unions and the staff. The publishers are driving this at each masthead, there's going to be different impacts on different mastheads. But lets, for sake of discussion, let's say approximately 50 at The Herald in Sydney and at The Age - Herald Publications in Sydney and at The Age in Melbourne. So that's, that's sort of the shape of it.

ALI MOORE: But if we could...

BRUCE WOLPE: And then if - sorry.

ALI MOORE: ... if we look at The Age, 50 is no small number to cut out of a newspaper.

BRUCE WOLPE: It's no small number, but a lot of people think 50 journalists and - and you're taking 50 reporters off, sub-editor - it affects sub-editing principally. Sub-editors are great journalists, it's a craft, very important. But it - the changes really have to do - and the changes at The Age will be announced by the publisher in the coming days and weeks. They're working through it. And I - I don't have information on exactly what will be done. That's for Don Churchill the publisher to say and he will say it.
But here in Sydney, as more plans have been - where plans have been announced, it has to do with the process of producing the paper as opposed to reporting on the paper. And technology drives improvement and technology can drive efficiencies and productivity. And so it really is how the paper is composed, not what - not - not principally or overwhelmingly or in any dominant fashion, as to - as to how many resources are allocated to reporting.

ALI MOORE: But are in essence saying then that, let's look at The Age, the 50 losses will come from sub-editors?

BRUCE WOLPE: I'm waiting - it's for the publisher to say...

ALI MOORE: Sure. But that is your expectation.

BRUCE WOLPE: As - it - that's the general trend of things, but the specifics I really must leave to Don - these - to Don Churchill. This has been, this bubble, this is bottom-up driven as opposed to top-down driven.

ALI MOORE: Well, it's top-down driven in the sense that you've said you must make cuts and then you're, I guess, letting the individual managers work out where they put them. But even if it is 50 sub-editors, I mean, any journalist will tell you a sub-editor is worth their weight in gold.

BRUCE WOLPE: They are - the sub-editors are great and a craft, and they do magic on the pages. Technology also enables magic to continue to be done in - in other ways.

ALI MOORE: But the technology doesn't check facts. It doesn't check for screening of stories. It doesn't check for accuracy.

BRUCE WOLPE: No, but - there can be more efficiency. Let's take the ABC, for example. There's an issue with the ABC as to whether you're going to have camera operators on the floor. I go to Sky News, there are no camera operators on the floor, it's done remotely. Is the shot at Sky News different than the shot that comes out of the ABC? In other words, is what the viewer is seeing, in terms of the - what is being reported on, is that changed by a change in the production process for the television program.

ALI MOORE: But there's rather a difference between the role of a camera operator, not that I'm defending that move in a - you know, in anyway. But the role of a camera operator versus the role? I mean, how can you even compare them?

BRUCE WOLPE: The quest - the issue is that you just look on a constant basis - media's under pressure. You've talked about it for a long time. And our technology drives it, audiences fragment, media evolves, new platforms, internet and so forth, and so you have to look all the time, how can we do things better. And there are just always ways that can be improved. Look at your job here at 774, Lateline Business, other things that you'll be doing. Because of technology available to you, you can do your job much more efficiently today than you could two or three years ago.

ALI MOORE: I accept...

BRUCE WOLPE: So everything is...

ALI MOORE: ... accept efficiency.

BRUCE WOLPE: ... everything is being looked at.

ALI MOORE: I'm just wondering, though, how - how you put out a quality newspaper and you don't affect editorial integrity with 50 fewer sub-editors.

BRUCE WOLPE: I believe - well, the proof will ultimately be in the pudding. But the - the manager - the publishers, the editors, management of the company is absolutely committed to continuing the great heritage quality and integrity of these mastheads. It runs in their veins, that's what they believe, that's what they want to do and that's what they're committed to.
I mean, in six months or 12 months we can take a look and it - and it's easy to sit here and just say the sky is falling, it's all - it's horrible. But they are committed to doing - keeping faith with what they know and do best, as professionals, as people who love journalism, who want to bring the best to their readers and have really great newspapers to read and enjoy. And that's what they're committed to and that's whey they're going to do.

ALI MOORE: How much through these job cuts is going to be outsourced and who to?
BRUCE WOLPE: I - again, I do not have decisions being made in Melbourne. In Sydney, some of the sections, not the main book, not business pages. Some of the sections and some of the supplements will be outsourced for Herald Publications. The other thing that they're doing is they're putting the Sun Herald and the Sydney Morning Herald on the same roster, seven day roster, which is the same as The Age and The Sunday Age have had for 10 years.

ALI MOORE: So you outsource it. Is that to Pagemaster, which is this organisation half owned by Fairfax?

BRUCE WOLPE: Yes, that's my understanding as far as...

ALI MOORE: And who owns the other half of Pagemaster?

BRUCE WOLPE: I don't know who owns the other half of Pagemaster.

ALI MOORE: Is it News Corporation?

BRUCE WOLPE: I don't - I - it's owned through AAP, so I - and as News and Fairfax have stakes in AAP, yes, I assume that's the balance of it.

ALI MOORE: So, how far can you take the - the Pagemaster outsource model? I mean, if you can outsource your lift outs and your, you know, your feature sections, do you get to a point that you can outsource your news?

BRUCE WOLPE: No. I mean, you do - you do get news - news comes from many sources, but we're not talking about that today. What we're talking about is increasing efficiency, as far as how the paper's put together, not as far as the scope, sweep, quality - it's just all of the news that comes into the paper. It's a - it's a focus on production and not output.

ALI MOORE: Why was Andrew Jaspan sacked?

BRUCE WOLPE: I'll leave - Don Churchill had a statement on Andrew Jaspan and I'll just let Don speak for that.

ALI MOORE: [Laughing] Unfortunately that statement didn't actually address that question.

BRUCE WOLPE: Don is the publisher of The Age and he's - and he made that decision and it's for him to talk with. Thank you, Ali.

ALI MOORE: So, Bruce Wolpe, I'm sorry, but that - I find that very hard to believe that you - that you say that Don Churchill made that decision. Don Churchill works for David Kirk, the CEO of Fairfax.

BRUCE WOLPE: Publishers - a lot of people really don't - they think they understand how Fairfax works, but I'm telling you that the publishers run their mastheads and the publishers make decisions on [indistinct].

ALI MOORE: So that decision wasn't ultimately leaving to be ticked off? I mean, in essence, it's a board appointment, isn't it?

BRUCE WOLPE: There was consultation and advice...

ALI MOORE: But it's a board appointment, isn't it, the Andrew Jaspan appointment?

BRUCE WOLPE: The board approved the decision taken by the publisher.

ALI MOORE: So the publisher went to the board and said I want to get rid of Andrew Jaspan?

BRUCE WOLPE: The publisher - I - I'm sure it was put in - I'm sure there was a larger word (*) than that, Ali. The publisher advised - consulted with and advised the deputy CEO, Brian McCarthy, and the CO, David Kirk, and the - and the board was advised and approved of the publishers decision. But the publishers run their businesses. That's why what ultimately happens with The Age will be - is a publishers decision, the same in Sydney with the Sydney Morning Herald, the same with the Financial Review, the same with Fairfax Digital, the same with Fairfax New Zealand. So...

ALI MOORE: Are you...

BRUCE WOLPE: ... that's how the company is run.

ALI MOORE: Is it - is it a little concerning then that, I mean, you've talked about what's going to happen in Sydney, because you know one of the problems in Melbourne is that there is, very much, a lack of clarity on how The Age is going to go forward under these changes. There seems to be, you know, difficult relations, we certainly can't get hold of - of Don Churchill. There's been nothing in the papers themselves. Isn't the risk here that you're going to damage the brand in the process of working out what you're going to do with it?

BRUCE WOLPE: I don't think so, because the paper is going to be - the paper's in great shape and will continue to be in great shape. Don is doing a very careful job of consulting with his executives, with his editors and with - and with the staff, and will work it through. And when he's ready to say what will be done, he's going to tell them first.

ALI MOORE: But he just sacked...

BRUCE WOLPE: And that's what - and that's what's going to happen.

ALI MOORE: But he's just sacked an editor who increased the sales on the circulation.

BRUCE WOLPE: There are - again, I will just have to let Don talk about editors and how he wants them - what he wants from his editors at various times as far as the business is concerned. The paper was in great shape as far as readership and circulation. Paul Ramage is just a terrific editor as well, as acting editor, and I'm sure he will drive the paper forward. A permanent editor will be named in due course and that person, he or she, will also be terrific. So, these things will absolutely continue.

ALI MOORE: How long as Fairfax management, and I'm talking now head office, been preparing for industrial action? It seemed that systems were well and truly in place to get the papers out.

BRUCE WOLPE: Well, you have to - you make contingencies. These things - the EBA negotiations have been going on since April/May and so you've - and there has been industrial action in the past so you make contingencies for them.

ALI MOORE: And how are relations with staff? I mean, we saw on the weekend threats of a lock out and...

BRUCE WOLPE: This is - these are - this is - this is tough. I mean, it's no fun, emotions are raw, things get hot, words are said. It's - these are very difficult things. But all transitions are. And - and a lot of the passion comes from - first of all, the journalists and the media industry have been reporting on media developments worldwide for years, so intellectually it's not a particularly strange situation.
But when it comes to you, and not necessarily for the same reasons as we've been seeing overseas, the issue here is, just to go back to the beginning of our discussion, how can you run the company more productively. And, again, 70 per cent of the focus was on the corporate side, 30 per cent on the editorial side. And not on the output and quality of the paper, but how you just put it together.
And so - but when it comes down to you, every - every job is a person, every person is a life and every life is a future. And so these things are not easy and - and they're not taken - they're not taken with any degree of alacrity. It is...

ALI MOORE: You say - you say that, you know, passions are high and things are said. Mike Carlton was sacked after he refused to put his column in when the paper was on strike, the Sydney Morning Herald. Will he be reinstated?

BRUCE WOLPE: The matters - as much as I would love to amplify on this, the matter is this morning, Ali, before the Ombudsman here in New South Wales, the Workplace Ombudsman. And nothing that I could comment on would add to the - to that process. So I think I'll just desist for the moment. We can talk about that in the future.

ALI MOORE: Just - well, just returning to the broader issue then of editorial quality, interestingly enough in an article in your own paper, in The Age yesterday, Rodney Tiffen, a professor of government and international relations at the University of Sydney, he made the point that Fairfax has been a prominent member of the Right to Know Coalition and that that coalition bemoans the rise of government spin activities.
And to quote from the article, they - they, as in the coalition, pointed to it's great expansion in recent years and decried government's increasing capacity for manipulating the news media, but any reduction in the resources devoted to news reporting will heighten the papers dependence on such spin. Already the press critics are charging that too often journalism is replaced by churnalism, where in the name of increased journalistic productivity, media releases are reproduced uncritically without further checking.
Checking - this is me now. Checking needs people and experienced people, and good reporting doesn't just happen.

BRUCE WOLPE: No. And that's why, as I said, the - what we have been focussing on is the process of producing the paper, not the reporting in the paper. And the - and the point that Tiffen has made is very, very serious and - and all journalists and all media have to have regard for it because of trends in society and - trends in society and how PR can overtake things. And including yours truly as well. [Laughs]

ALI MOORE: So, Bruce Wolpe, we're not seeing - we're not seeing, I guess, the slow demise of the newspaper, a little like what's happened at Channel 9 with a few programs, death by a thousand cuts?

BRUCE WOLPE: I don't believe so. And, you know, the issue of quality journalism, Ali, where we started from, is just so important. And then I was just, sort of, gobsmacked last Friday - I saw a transcript last Friday on Lateline with Eric Beecher, and Virginia Trioli said - because Beecher has been out there as the big defender of quality journalism in Australia, right, and what's happening to Fairfax, a disgrace and so forth.
And Virginia Trioli, who occupied your chair at an earlier incarnation, said Eric Beecher, what would you do with Fairfax if you got your hands on it tomorrow. Eric Beecher, well, the first option would be to sell it or break it up and sell it, that's what I would do. And so here is the great defender of quality journalism and he says Fairfax, which everyone is concerned about, a continuous quality journalism, he'd say he'd like to sell it or break it up and sell it. And I just say the hell with that. And that's where some critics come from and that's not the road we're going to go down.

ALI MOORE: Bruce Wolpe, thank you for talking to us this morning.

BRUCE WOLPE: Thank you, Ali.

ALI MOORE: And I'd be delighted to talk to Don Churchill should he wish to come on the program.

BRUCE WOLPE: I will absolutely be - you can enlist me in your cause.

ALI MOORE: Thank you very much.

BRUCE WOLPE: Thank you, Ali.

ALI MOORE: Bruce Wolpe there, the director of corporate affairs at Fairfax Media.
Well, what do you think about? Are you convinced editorial quality is safe at the Fairfax papers? The number you can call is 1300 222 774, or you can text on 19774774.